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Recap Of Today’s CRS 360 Discussion On Gender Balance At Country Radio Part II


Welcome Everyone!

Cindy Mabe Can’t Be Here Because Of A Family Emergency.

And That Helps Us Understand That Family Is More Important Than Our Industry Issues.

With Us Today Is Lindsay Ell A Female Country Music Artist

And Beville Dunkerly A Female From  Pandora.

Lindsay What’s It Like To Be A Female Artist Today?

(Insert Lyrics Of Feelings By Morris Albert)

But I Do Acknowledge That Good Music Is What Works

Beville Talk To Us About Pandora.  Blah Blah Blah Algorithms.

Blah Blah I Used To Be In Terrestrial Radio And Go Girls!!!!!

Linsday How Will Things Change?  Well… I Feel That Blah Blah Blah … Unfair… Blah Blah. Blah.

Thank You Linsday.

Beville And Lindsay Do Women Want To Hear Women?    Blah Blah Blah I See Women At My Shows.  And The Algorithms Show That More Women Listen To Country Products.

But They Do Listen To Men.

Breville How Can This Change?   Well Programmers Need To Be Brave And Add More Females And Ah Blah Blah Blah And Algorithms.

Well, Thanks, Everybody.

Glad We Solved This Gender “Imbalance” Issue.   So Stay Tuned Because Our Next Crs 360 Will Be In July On Another And Different Topic!

Actually, They Were Very Articulate And Thoughtful.  But Nothing Was Solved!

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Kudos to R.J. Curtis – But is it the right Question????

Kudos to R.J. Curtis

Yesterday the CRS held a webinar called “A Discussion Of Gender Balance At Country Radio: Part One”

I had thought that R.J. Curtis would stay away from this topic.  Curtis kicked off the webinar by correctly sighting the motto, “Growth Through Sharing.”  The founding members of CRS believed that the country format could be stronger than Pop, Rock, and Adult Contemporary formats by sharing research, ideas, promotions and concepts within the format itself.  They also believed that when radio and records embraced each other that those synergies would make country stronger.

There was one mention of Dr. Jada Watson.  She did not do any research. All she did was compile Mediabase reports.  Jeff Green did more than Watson!

What did we learn yesterday?

Jeff Green did an excellent job of showing us the percentage of singles released to radio by females.  There were also excellent graphs showing the percentages of singles by females that got airplay of certain levels.  Jeff’s biggest reveal was that when the measurement of country radios largest markets by PPM technology there were changes. Country radio played singles longer than before.  That meant shorter playlists and fewer adds.

Jeff also pointed out that County is a top-performing format.  He also pointed out that the cumes of country radio break in favor of women listeners.  I wish he had talked about the real currency we worry about.  That is average quarter hours.  While the cumes of country are 55% female there and even more important metric.  Nielsen boils radio listening down to a uniform currency called average quarter hours.  One person listens for one hour that is four-quarter hours.  Four people listen 15 minutes each that also is four-quarter hours. Females deliver 68% of the average quarter hours to radio!  Women listen longer than men (in the aggregate) to country radio.  The point is that country radio programmers research and caters to female listeners.

We all know country radio ultimately will tune their metrics to optimize cumes and time spent listening and time spent exposed.

Hey, Jeff, the entry of Soundscan changed things too!

Technology has allowed us to get a clearer picture with more accuracy.  Larger samples with precise attribution mean more accuracy and a much higher level of confidence.

There was no mention of MScore.  That’s okay.  John Shomby covered the basics of radio programming and ratings very efficiently.  MScore is a product that takes the Nielsen meter holders and shows the tune in and tune out on each individual song.  Programmers use it to increase the rotation and plays on songs that perform well and inversely reduce the rotation and plays on songs that perform at a lesser level.

My claim is that our programmers don’t care about gender when we increase or decrease the spins on a song.  We care about the relative strengths of the songs based upon the response of the listeners.  This is truly the free market at work.

The discussion of “GUT” cited as a top reason to add records is interesting.  John Shomby explained that a programmer knows his or her station and audience.  Then they make adds based upon a fit into that station’s sound.  He referred to it as a strategy.  In our research, we find that our listeners think the ideal station has more tempo that our station has now.  So we then have a bias against ballads. We tune the programming to drive the tempo more.  That way we are a better product matching the ideal the listeners want. The same might go for other music metrics like a desire for more gold, more twang, etc.  We call these “music lanes.”  Calling it “GUT” really besmirches what it actually is.

Think of it this way.  Captain Sully Sullenberger “used his gut” to land a plane on Hudson after his plane lost both engines.  Well yes and no.  Yes, if you consider “GUT” his years and years of experience and training.  No, if you call it thousands of hours of flying planes, classes in Flight School and reading reports of NTSB Crashes from the past.

Rachel Skaggs presented data on the number of female artists who have won Grammy’s.  Also, industry polls on “I wish I had written that song” and songs on country radio counted in Billboard.

I thought John Shomby helped bring clarity to the Grammy issue.  Grammy’s are very disconnected from Country Radio.  Over the years we have had many artists get Grammy’s that we did not play much on Country Radio.  The list is long.  Glen Campbell from 2015,  Asleep At The Wheel, Alison Krauss, Sturgill Simpson, and R.J. made mention of that 2004 compilation “Songs of the Louvin Brothers.”  So when I hear, “but it won a Grammy!”  I say do the listeners care?

Music Critics were mentioned.  I’ve told many record promoters over the years, “if Robert K. Oermann likes a record I’ll stay away from it.  However, if he doesn’t like it I’ll give it a try.”  These are the opinions of a class of “journalist elites” who have never programmed a radio station where they were pressured to drive ratings in the real world.

I’m not sure R.J. is willing to bring up in Part 2 of this discussion, “are we asking the right question?”

The description of the webinar starts  “There has been plenty of debate recently challenging Country music to find a better male-female balance when it comes to radio airplay.”

What is “Better Balance?”

Isn’t that like  “Trucks are outselling sedans!  Join our discussion to get a better balance of sedans to trucks in America” ????

I understand the optics of the percentages of females at country radio.  The current metrics are not the result of misogyny or sexism.  They are the result of the free market.

I have long challenged someone in Country radio to program a rated station in a PPM market to play 40% to 50% females. (I strongly believe the rating result would prove that the way radio is operating today results in the highest possible time spent exposed.)

We want a “better balance” because we don’t want sexism.  We want a “better balance” because we want fairness.

Welcome to America and a Free Market.

We do have equal opportunity. The doors of every record label are OPEN for business.  Female acts can send demos and make their pitch for record contracts.  The woman of Nashville can start an all-female label if they like.  All female owned, all female executives and an all-female roster. Why that might even drive the one metric mention by Jeff Green that seems to be meaningful, the number of singles released by females. (30%)

As to the number of spins on country radio, those 30 percent of releases get reduced in airplay and spins.

So we have equality of opportunities but NOT EQUALITY OF OUTCOMES!

The spins on country radio are up to the response of the listeners.  Jeff Green did not drill down to see that during the late 90s (95/96/97/98) when we were playing our highest percentage of females what happened to time spent listening.  I’ll tell you it went down considerably.   That is when I studied this issue AND tested it.  I programmed stations with lower percentages of females and defied that national averages on time spent listening.

My question to the CRB… is a “better balance” an artificially inflated number of females?  Or is it the desire for the numbers to be different than what our actual listeners want as the result of listening to our Country radio product and brands across America?

Keith Hill – I believe in Growth Through Sharing!

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Maybe someone from iHeart will email me.. is Tenille Townes – Somebody’s Daughter not “One The Verge” Anymore?????


Marissa Moss are you paying attention?  Dr. Watson?


Keith Hill

unconsult@aol.com    252-453-8888

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Uh Oh, Say It Ain’t So Tenille!

The iHeart Country Music Festival is over.  I’m not sure when the “on the verge” for Tenille Townes is over.

Looks like it might be sunsetting.

You mean those plays weren’t organic?

Keith Hill


Let the Free Market Work for All of Us!

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Charts Can Be Deceiving!

Charts Can Be Deceiving

Welcome back to class folks.  This is the place for FREE WORLDWIDE CLASSES in Understanding Country Music Radio, Charts , and The Play of Females on Country Radio.

So far I have maintained that country radio plays songs more when they test well and less or not at all when they test poorly. For the most part that is true. However, there are times radio stations play songs that they are told to play!


Let me explain.  Everyone knows what payola is.  First, it’s illegal for a radio programmer to take something of value in exchange for airplay.  So to be clear, what I am going to write about is not payola.  Plus, ever since Elliott Spitzer caught some programmers about to get big screen televisions for playing records, that practice has stopped.  In fact, the record labels have lawyers who make sure the labels activities are in compliance.  Every email you ever get from a record label will have that “legal-eze” below the person’s email signature.  Something like, “Note: Nothing of value was given or will be given to a radio station or radio station employee in exchange for airplay.”

I happened to agree with Scott Borchetta, “Music Has Value.” There are good and honest hard working folks who promote music to radio.  Promoting music to radio is a legitimate enterprise.

Welcome to 2019.  There are some new things at work. 

I’m going to assume that all of you have completed, “Music On Radio 101, 201, 301” because foundationally, a lot of this grows out of the Telecommunications Act of 1996.  That’s a law that essentially addressed the telephone industry.  However, it did have a line or two about ownership of radio stations that changed the radio industry a bunch.

Fast forward to today.  The Mediabase charts that Dr. Jada Watson and all of us look at have some important metrics that you need to know.  The Country Mediabase panel is comprised of 156 radio stations. 52 of them are owned by iHeartMedia Inc.  That’s about one third of that panel.  So if those iHeart programmers all like a record, it can do pretty well.

Sometimes these PD/MD/Brand Managers play songs they don’t want to.


Well they do want to play them because they want to keep their jobs.  So, truthfully your honor, they did want to play them.

It’s easy to appreciate that iHeartMedia corporate does things that are helpful to the individual stations.  Certainly, a big festival in Austin on May 4thwould be a great event to have to promote, broadcast from, and send listeners to.  Plus it’s in the very middle of the Nielsen rating period.  So, if you’re the brand manager of an iHeartMedia station, you love this kind of corporate support.

Those programmers certainly have no problem playing Tim McGraw, Florida-Georgia Line, Dan + Shay, and Luke Combs records to support the show.  In fact, playing more of those artists will help you in the ratings for sure!

Someone at iHeartMedia corporate had to work with the labels to get all of this done.  It’s not hard to believe that a label or two would say… ,“we will give you a new act of ours for your show.”  The label knows in turn they will get plays of this new artist as part of the promotion on iHeartmedia stations.  Imagine for a moment Columbia Records saying to iHeart, “we have a terrific new female from Canada who is huge up there already and we want to break her in the states.  We will send her to play your festival in Austin at no cost to iHeart, and in turn we hope that you will support her with on-air plays and mentions.” 

The iHeart executive says, “great.”  “Yes, I can’t make any measurable or specific promises, but we like to use our brands (stations) to promote our festival.  So, we will encourage our stations to play her record.  In fact, we have an internal term for that.  We call those acts “on the verge.”  So, you can be confident of our selfish efforts to promote the festival.

The deal is done.  The record label offers the act without the specific promise of anything in return.  They just want the exposure of the act.  They also hope and believe that stations will play the new act’s record to promote the festival.

iHeart gets a terrific new female to add to the festival.  That’s the definition of a WIN-WIN!

Now imagine you’re programming a meaningful iHeart station that carries some pretty good weight on the Mediabase panel.  You get a friendly email from iHeart corporate programming that states you need to play Tenille Townes – Somebody’s Daughter 40 spins every week for the next couple of weeks.  The email says, “it’s our On The Verge act and Tenille will be at the Festival May 4th! Thanks in advance for all your hard work in building equity into this very important iHeart Country Music Festival. See You There!”

If you check records in Mediabase, those 52 iHeart stations comprise about 20% to 30% of the plays and audience impressions on most songs (songs by Luke Bryan, Luke Combs, Blake Shelton, Carrie Underwood etc.).

Because of their benevolence, Columbia Records in turn gets a nice reward.

Those 52 iHeartmedia stations all play Tenille Townes. And not just play the song, but spin it at levels similar to those of power testing top 10 charting songs.

 The result is that those 52 iHeart stations today comprise 74% of the spins and 80% of the audience reach and impressions for Somebody’s Daughter by Tenille Townes. 

 (That means the other 104 stations are contributing 20%-25% of the plays on the Townes record.  They don’t have a festival to promote!  However iHeartmedia does!)

So, when regular folks look at the charts and see Tenille Townes at 30, they think, “wow this must be a good record with that station count.”  A cursory look at a few stations (WNOE, WYNK, KSD, WQIK, WDXB, WBUL, WDRM, WSSL, WCOS, KTEX, KXKT, WBBS, WBCT), and they are giving the song an eye popping 25 to 40 spins a week!

The truth is there is tremendous bias to play Tenille Townes. 

I wonder if more than 10% of those iHeart stations would play it were it not for the “on the verge” email from corporate?  I suspect that without the “on the verge” initiative, the spin counts would not be that robust.

Hey, let’s check that record after the Festival is over. They might continue to play it in support of an “after-glow” and “celebrate the Festival after the promotion.”  The real test will be what happens two, three and four weeks from now.  If the Townes record continues to climb, then Columbia will have done a righteous job.  They will have primed the pump of success.  After that initial advantage of exposure, the song might organically take off.   IF that happens, we will have a new face with more equity.  Check back in upcoming weeks, because I will check for you!

Because Dr. Jada Watson based a big “study” on Mediabase charts, she needs to understand that some of those chart positions are less than organic and natural.

Written by Adjunct Professor Keith Hill with a BA in real world experience. (Beware of folks with a Doctorate in Musicology who have never worked in radio and never added even one record!)

iHeartmedia is the parent of iHeartradio, and went through Bankruptcy Protection.

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Class is in Session – Lesson “Carrie Underwood”

Class is in session! You do a job long enough you learn a few things. So we know 2, 6 and 11 are bad numbers for record promoters.

When country radio today gets a new record from Carrie Underwood we are BIASED in favor of playing it. WHY? Because she is a superstar with equity. Her face is on the Mt. Rushmore of Country Music Stars.

Cry Pretty never tested very well. Capitol fought that one hard. It was the title cut from the new album. They channeled their best Monte Hall and got that song to #9. It was a heavy lift. Then came Love Wins. It also tested uh… less than Capitol would have liked. But we played the song because it was Carrie. Their job as record promoters is to “promote” and they did but fell short and the song will forever be a #11.

I’m sure we all have great faith in Southbound. To me it is sonically better. Even the very biggest female in the format get bias in her favor but the songs didn’t test well enough to get the songs to above 11 and 10 respectively.

Next class will be about newcomer Tenille Townes.

This is me way back in Seaford, Delaware when 1280 WSUX (that’s right WSUX-AM) was country. It was a day time only station and in the summer was on the air till 8:45pm. That gave me an after school summer job. They made me music director. This was 1976. Red Sovine -Teddy Bear which I added was on the air. I knelt down because I wanted it to capture the studio equipment in the picture. Adjunct Professor Keith Hill with a BA in real world experience. (Beware of folks with a Doctorate in Musicology who have never worked in radio and never added even one record!)

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Dan + Shay “Speechless”

Just so you know.  I will remove the tape and keep talking!!!!!!

Coming soon more lessons about Carrie Underwood, Miranda Lambert and Tenille Townes records.  I did not say “payola” .. I whispered  “new payola.”

Keith Hill


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I love country radio seminar.  I’ve been to a lot of ‘em.

Me and Martina before I said “tomato”

Tom McEntee and those folks who helped create the seminar had a great idea.  Country can be a strong format by embracing the labels, artists and sharing information and intel.

The Motto was and remains “Growth Through Sharing.”

Easy for anyone to say the agenda may not be what we need.  In fact I know they have tried to address the input that “there needs to be more for small market folks.”

Here are thee most important things that won’t be discussed in any session.

Those would be:

Charts Are Useless

The charts are virtually useless because of the large numbers of stations from the same companies.  Then those companies play the same new songs all in unison.  It’s the New Payola.  Two major corporations make a deal.  The big label group gets major chain to play the same new record multiple spins a day on the same days.  In exchange that group gets valuable promotional trips to give away to see one of the labels other major superstar acts.

The New Payola

The New Payola warps the charts and creates worse product for radio airplay.  It’s in the labels best interest to keep cranking out new acts that get streamed.  It’s immediate cash.  Protecting the Mount Rushmore Superstars isn’t something the labels worry about.  Those stars make more money from touring.  The labels don’t’ get much of that pie.  That’s why the labels do more to create a Russell Dickerson than to keep a Luke Bryan at a high profile level.

Who?  Nameless Faceless Acts

This chart and label combination is the cradle and incubator of creating many more nameless and faceless artists. They manufacture their careers via artificially trumped up played singles.  Radio needs stars much more than it needs songs.

Is This Even Country?

The strength of country has always been the excellent and robust song writing community. Then their fine material gets recorded.  Have we stretched the production rubber band past its breaking point?  I think what can be presented as country can be quite wide but now more than ever radio has listeners complaining about the music saying, “that ain’t country.”  I am not suggesting we dust off Hank Sr. and Ernest Tubb.  What I am suggesting is that there needs to be a production discussion.  The problem seems to be the streaming revenue model will never reflect what radio needs.  So revenue from streaming is more than just a competitor for time it pulls the product further away from what radio needs.

Radio Could Be Better – Two Things Scream For Attention

Radio is a local medium.  The concept of voice tracking from outside of the market feeds the transmitter but leaves a lot not done.  Who is cutting the ribbon at the remote opening the new cell phone store?  Who is at the high school tailgate party?  If the highest profile personalities are from four states away they can’t do these things.  Let alone describe the weather, road closures, or things that are happening in that local marketplace.

Partly because there are fewer local radio announcers there is less time to write and produce quality commercials.  Radio (Country Radio and all formats) run awful commercials.  Poorly conceived, poorly written and produced with about as much care as taking out the garbage.


Sure could use a robust industry discussion on these topics.

The CRB Board isn’t interested in my voice.  Why I actually share and tell uncomfortable truths.  I’m politically incorrect.  And the folks who run the CRS are political and politically correct.  If they let Keith Hill have a voice why he’ll say that we actually play 15% women and then say the word “tomato.”   God Forbid!

Keith Hill



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There has always been some level of manipulation in all music charts.  Why isn’t that the job of record promotion folks?

Promo Person on a call – “It just won song wars on KBBB 3 nights in a row and it beat star name!”

Another call – “hot phones in Parkersburg and Scranton”

Another call – “Joe Jones is testing it in Big City and it’s his #3 tester with 80% positive!”

Fast forward 35 years…   “Hello Rod… we want to talk about a cooperative venture.”  I can only speculate about the rest of that call.

I even suspect there is candor… “look my midline artist record isn’t testing well but I need a few more weeks so let’s talk about what we can do together.”

Now what does all of this have to do with a Ford Econoline Van?

Well many years ago in addition to my radio career I had several rental apartments.  At one point I had enough of them that I needed to buy a van to move furniture and appliances.  So I went really cheap.  I bought an old beat up extended van that had rust holes and ran really rough.  It actually barely ran.  Oh and it didn’t lock and the dashboard didn’t work.

With a dashboard that doesn’t work you just have to drive what you think is the right speed. The real trick is always topping off the gasoline because you never really knew how much gas there was in the tank.

As I look at the Mediabase and Billboard I see clear evidence of manipulation, jive, deals, and various kinds of olas.   I can only guess the compliance folks have found the loopholes, or are actually the sherpas giving guidance to the promo departments.

As I look at the charts these days it reminds me of that dash; it didn’t work on that old van. It didn’t give me any useful information.

Promotional initiatives with large groups of radio stations take rookie no name artists up the charts quickly while Mount Rushmore superstars climb like turtles with at least one broken leg.

Here’s what the charts do indicate today.  They indicate what the labels want country radio to play.  They in no way indicate the popularity of these songs with audience on America’s country radio stations.

I hate to sound like a presidential tweet but that’s “SAD.”

So, what do I do?   What can you do?   Do what I did with that old Ford Van with a dashboard that didn’t work.  Drive very carefully.

Do you know what to play WITHOUT the charts?

Call Keith Hill 252-453-8888

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Ed Hill programmed several radio stations.  Among them top rated country stations in Salt Lake City and Seattle.

Ed knows what he is doing.  He learned as a jock from the great program directors of years ago that he worked for.  Plus Ed is smart.  He never just imitated another radio station.  He thought about his station, it’s brand, it’s images, it’s fun factors and then created fresh locally meaningful content.

Ed’s been out of country radio for a couple of years but he’s still got that great brain. Here is his insightful post about listening to the one country radio station in Los Angeles.

I reprint Ed’s post here.

I have been out of country music and radio for almost two years. Listened to Go Country in LA and they have imaging on the air that is years old. I mean they mentioned “your iPod” who has an iPod?

Another big issue… The songs and the themes of the songs we’re all the same. Pure vanilla. Whoever is programming that station is not paying attention to the details. I never listen to radio anymore but decided to listen to see what has happened to the music.
This one jock said “ Here’s the latest from….
It was an act I have never heard of so I asked my 21 year old daughter who that was and she had no idea.

Then the female jock was promoting the morning show and she said… Set your alarm clocks . Clocks. Yes she said clocks. Yes CLOCKS.

Does anybody get reviewed anymore? The radio audience is shrinking. You have to be better than what I heard or you will accelerate
the inevitable slow decline into irrelevance.

Ed couldn’t be more right.

Might I suggest you take a full day outside of your own radio station and listen all day.

Attack your own station like it was your competition.  Think, “This station is programmed by an idiot.  Let me pick it apart!”

Make a list of every weakness.

Every anachronistic thing.

Every thing that is self serving and not listener benefit centric.

Then fix things.

It’s not just your career. It’s the career and welfare of everybody who works at the station.  Get it right!

Are you qualified to be PD of your station?

If you think so prove it!

Ed and I are not related.  We are brothers of different mothers.  Ed is that ok with you?

Get Your Music Right!  Get Everything Right!

If you need help call Keith Hill 252-453-8888        


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